Why Doesn't VW Discount The GTI?

"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
10/18/2016 at 14:54 • Filed to: volkswagen, gti, vw gti

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , my top contenders for my next daily driver are the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . The GTI is the most upscale and refined of the three, but the Focus ST is much better than I expected, giving the GTI a good run in the comfort department. But the GTI is significantly more expensive than the Ford and the Subaru, and despite VW falling on tough times thanks to Dieselgate, they’re not cutting any price breaks on their hot hatch. Why not?

Read on Right Foot Down or continue below

GTI vs. Focus ST

With its sedan body and all-wheel-drive, let’s leave out the WRX and compare the hot hatches instead. The most basic FoST starts at $22,050, more than $3,500 less than the $25,595 GTI S. Set up the way I like, the Ford with the 402A equipment group and optional wheels like my press car had comes to $27,540. The GTI Sport package comes close my dream FoST’s price at $27,995, but has plaid cloth seats rather than leather. At least they’re heated, and if you’re going to have cloth seats in a GTI, the classic plaid like the original is mandatory in my book. But you can’t get leather seats in a GTI until you step up to the SE for $30,890. And that’s not even the top of the line model - that would be the Autobahn, starting at $34,095. A fully loaded Autobahn ($36,010) is only $3,335 less than the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! starting at $39,375.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Higher end models of the GTI do offer equipment that’s not available at all in the Focus ST, like a DSG transmission (the FoST is manual only), and Dynamic Chassis Control to stiffen or soften your suspension on the fly. The higher prices for models equipped this way are justified. Let’s assume that anyone looking for a hot hatch with these advanced features will ignore the Focus and go straight toward a high end GTI or a Golf R. But there’s still a huge price gap between the base models, and between a top of the line FoST compared to a comparably equipped mid-range GTI.

Look At The Numbers

One might think that with all the bad Dieselgate publicity that VW dealers would be chomping at the bit to move cars off their lots, offering steep discounts to compensate for their tarnished name. My first thought when the news of diesel emissions cheating broke last year was “Ooo, maybe I can get a cheap GTI.” But that hasn’t turned out to be the case. The prices I cited above are current prices on VW’s and Ford’s web sites at the time of this post. Dealers have not been discounting GTIs as you might expect. Why?

!!!CAPTION ERROR: MAY BE MULTI-LINE OR CONTAIN LINK!!!

A look at the GTI’s sales numbers for the past few years tells the story. The Mk. 7 GTI was introduced in June 2014 as a 2015 model. GTI sales dropped off a bit for the nearly two years leading up to its release. This is normal for any older model that’s about to be replaced. Sales took off again with the release of the Mk. 7, and have remained strong ever since.

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

And there’s the rub. Dieselgate erupted in September 2015, when VW sold 1825 GTIs. In response to the scandal, they sold 2520 GTIs the following month - nearly 700 more cars. VW sold a total of 16,817 GTIs between January and September 2015. For the same time period this year, they sold 17,187. Dieselgate has had absolutely no harmful effect on GTI sales whatsoever.

Photo credit: Wikipedia / Mario Roberto Duran Ortiz

This kind of makes sense. The people who would buy a diesel VW are generally not the same people who would buy a performance oriented version. They’re looking for fuel economy and long range. These, and people who now reject the company on principle, are the customers who VW lost through Dieselgate.

Enthusiasts, on the other hand, have always flocked to the GTI. It’s been one of the best hot hatches out there ever since its introduction. Diesel emissions have nothing to do with it. The question we should be asking isn’t why VW isn’t discounting the GTI because of Dieselgate. The real question is, why would they? It’s one of the best things VW has going for them.

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

DISCUSSION (41)

Vicente Esteve > Justin Hughes
10/18/2016 at 15:13

I misread the title of your article at first as this “Why doesn’t VW Discontinue the GTI?” and though what the hell was this guy talking about.

But yeah, VW has stayed strong on every other market as well it seems. I have asked several adults about their view on this and they all agree’d they couldn’t give less of a damn since they like the cars.

Party-vi > Justin Hughes
10/18/2016 at 15:15

$36K for a GTI Autobahn, or $36K for a Fusion Sport with the 401A package (most dealers are advertising around $36K). I wonder how both stack up, as I don’t think these are being cross-shopped very often.

Justin Hughes > Vicente Esteve
10/18/2016 at 15:16

Yeah, it would be totally stupid for VW to discontinue the GTI! Thanks for giving me some credit. :)

Justin Hughes > Party-vi
10/18/2016 at 15:18

I’d love to get my hands on a Fusion Sport to try. I know David Tracy found it to be a let-down for enthusiast drivers , but I’d like to make my own conclusion.

Vicente Esteve > Justin Hughes
10/18/2016 at 15:21

I wouldn’t rage comment without reading first.

The Ghost of Oppo > Justin Hughes
10/18/2016 at 15:24

I paid $15,000 in 2005 for my Mk4 GTI 1.8T with a sunroof. God, I never thought I’d miss the mid 2000s

LongbowMkII > Party-vi
10/18/2016 at 15:26

I think it’d be easier to just get an STi.

Tripper > Justin Hughes
10/18/2016 at 15:27

I’ve just configured all three and the way I want em, and the WRX and the GTI are the same price. I’ll have leather plus the sport package on the WRX for $34,814. On The GTI I’ll go Autobahn because I’ve had magnetic dampers on the last two cars and like them for $34,915.

The FoST with full leather Recaro’s (which is the only box that I ticked) comes to $27,540

I don’t think that the GTI and WRX are $7500 better than the ST, but It’s also not enough to get me into an ST just because it’s cheaper. I’ve not driven the ST (and I have the other two) so I can’t say for sure, but as you said. The GTI is the most refined of the 3, so for me I could see spending the extra to get into the GTI. The WRX would be a tougher argument.

Probenja > Justin Hughes
10/18/2016 at 15:31

I don’t see how dieselgate would affect sales of the GTI. They aren’t even close to have the same kind of buyer. Maybe it’s because I don’t live in the US and the dieselgate news weren’t a big deal.

LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com > Justin Hughes
10/18/2016 at 15:37

You should find the discount once you actually negotiate a deal. I negotiated 15% off MSRP for my 2016 GTI Autobahn at the end of May. Others on forums were reporting the same at that time and through July when I stopped paying attention.

By contrast, no movement on the Golf R, MSRP or higher when I was in the market.

So, the others may also have hidden discounts that you would see upon negotiation that would keep the prices equal, but to say that VW or the dealers have not been discounting the GTI would be incorrect . . . just not up front.

Justin Hughes > Tripper
10/18/2016 at 15:38

At the moment, despite being a long time WRX fan and current BRZ owner, the WRX is at the bottom of my list of three. I have trouble justifying the extra refinement of the GTI over the FoST, equipped as I’d like them. But it’s available if you want it, especially if you splurge for the Autobahn.

Justin Hughes > Probenja
10/18/2016 at 15:38

Exactly my point. GTI sales went UP the month after the news broke here in the US. No connection whatsoever.

Party-vi > LongbowMkII
10/18/2016 at 15:48

Berf. Do not want cardboard speakers and Subaru interior.

ToyotaFamily > Justin Hughes
10/18/2016 at 16:03

that seems like a lot for a GTI S. I’ve seen a couple advertised for 22k in my area.

Kanaric > Justin Hughes
10/18/2016 at 16:24

I know one thing about the GTI, it’s chosen less than the Focus ST but is just as good in Autocross if you pick the PP version. I would say it’s possibly better as it has a limited slip.

Eventually when I replaced my daily the GTI will be in the running.

Tripper > Justin Hughes
10/18/2016 at 16:33

Yea WRX would be at the bottom of my list too, even though I’ve owned a couple and think they are fantastic cars.

$7500 more is a lot. If I dial back the GTi to an SE so lose the dampers and the navigation it closes that gap to $4k. A GTI with leather seats is a super nice car for 31k. Without leather in the GTI I think I’m in the ST.

Newsboy > Justin Hughes
10/18/2016 at 16:40

That’s odd.

They were more than happy to sell me a $36k e-Golf for $17k.

Justin Hughes > Kanaric
10/18/2016 at 16:47

Any actual limited slip is better than the FoST’s brake vectoring system. It’s not bad, but nowhere near as good as the real thing.

Justin Hughes > Newsboy
10/18/2016 at 16:48

They literally can’t sell enough of those. And how much of that was tax credits?

LongbowMkII > Party-vi
10/18/2016 at 16:54

Speakers are upgradable.

Party-vi > LongbowMkII
10/18/2016 at 16:56

That I have to buy upgraded speakers from Subaru for my Subaru that I’m already buying from Subaru is some bullshit.

Kanaric > Justin Hughes
10/18/2016 at 17:08

It is for sure measurably better though for autocross i’m not sure it makes that huge of a difference. Like Focus STs dominate the class, but there are just not as many GTIs being run. However for me I would want a LSD for sure, I don’t want brake vectoring..... which is what it really is.

On top of it the GTI has the option for a DCT.

It’s just overall a better car. If the GTI had the same standard of publishing horsepower as Ford does the GTI would have as much as well. I see it doing better 1/4 mile times in every comparison review.

Jonee > Justin Hughes
10/18/2016 at 18:13

That’s the one strike against the ST if you want to go to the track. Otherwise, I think the FoST is the best performance bargain maybe of all time.

LongbowMkII > Party-vi
10/18/2016 at 18:14

The least VW could do is offer upgraded timing chain guides.

(Yes I realize this joke is a decade old)

Saracen > Kanaric
10/18/2016 at 18:36

Having owned many veedubs and test driven a Focus ST (something I was really interested in), I think the GTI is better in pretty much every single way. The Focus ST’s supposed power advantage never manifests itself.

Saracen > Party-vi
10/18/2016 at 18:45

That’s where I just get a Golf R for $39k. Best of everything.

Steve in Manhattan > Justin Hughes
10/18/2016 at 19:21

I saw this at work today, but we were too busy for me to write.

My question is - is there a dealer within a few hundred miles of you where they have a few GTIs sitting around that no one is buying? Some markets have the ability to absorb that sort of car, some don’t. I got my 300D for nearly 8 grand off sticker because the market was slow and it had MB Tex, not leather.

nalydx > Justin Hughes
10/18/2016 at 20:58

Dealers are slashing the price on GTIs around me, almost $3k off BEFORE incentives, while a dealership down the street has them at sticker. Best to look around because the deals are there.

AceRImmer > Justin Hughes
10/18/2016 at 20:59

Having owned both I can make an unbiased assessment. Had a FoST for 1 year which got totaled by someone trying to drive thru my passenger side. It had lots more bells and whistles for the money (ST3 vs GTI S w/ PP), I personally prefer the Recaros to the GTI seats (for comfort/support, not looks- plaid is awesome). And the ST has better throttle response. That’s about what I liked more.

I’d take the GTI all day, every day over the ST. The fit/finish is signifcantly higher quality. The handling with the performance pack/trick LSD is better while having a much more combfortable and compsed ride. The ST is worse over rough stuff than my Boss 302 on its stiffest setting. Road trips are more enjoyable/comfortable/relaxing in the GTI. It sounds better floored yet much quieter cruising.

The ST never relaxes, it’s always hyper. GTI is calm, demure, until scorched with a hot iron and gallops away. I find it more fun due to its consistency, never liked the ST’s random snap oversteer. And the GTI feel so much more solid and better engineered.

GTI also has much greater modding potential too due to DI and larger turbo, and it’s usable w/ the LSD.

Best I can sum up, I put 4000 miles on ST in a year and 10,000 on the GTI the year after. I’d gladly pay $5000 more for the same content and get the GTI.

PS9 > Newsboy
10/18/2016 at 21:08

Newsboy: I’d think about buying an e-Golf if only they didn’t wa-

VW Salesman: * materializes out of nowhere* YOU CAN HAVE IT FOR $20k! $20K!!! THAT’S A KILLER DEAL!!!!!!!!!!

Newsboy: How did you get in my house?!

VW Salesman: OKAY, I CAN SEE $20K MIGHT BE PUSHING IT, HOW ABOUT $18K??

Newsboy: Well I’m not really looking for a-

VW Salesman: $17.5k! UNDER 20 GRAND FOR A BRAND NEW ELECTRIC CAR!!! WAY LESS THAN TESLA!!!!!

Newsboy:I...I’m calling the police.

VW Salesman: OKAY YOU GOT ME!! $17K AND I WON’T GO ANY LOWER UNLESS YOU ASK ME TO GO LOWER PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD ASK ME TO GO LOWER WE NEED TO GET RID OF THESE THINGS WE’RE DESPERATE

Policeman: Ugh, really Bill? This is the third time this week. I’m really getting tired of your shit, man. * handcuffs salesman*

VW Salesman: SO I CAN PUT YOU DOWN FOR A MAYBE, RIGHT?

Newsboy: GET OUT OF MY HOUSE!

VW Salesman: SEE YOU NEXT WEEK ON THE LOT AFTER I POST BAIL!

chilichez > Kanaric
10/18/2016 at 23:36

Uhhhh no. ST is faster. Rotates better, 255s vs 225s. GTIs power curve is better though in my opinion. Check the Nationals results from Lincoln and any track in your neighborhood. Good driver in an ST will beat a good driver in a GTI. Mk7s make it closer though.

I raced a Mk6 in GS this season, won the class here. But only because the a couple really good ST drivers didn’t show up enough for the points qual. If everyone showed up every time (and the ST guy who didnt run RE71s did), I would have been fourth.

With that said, the GTI is better every day not racing. More comfortable, more refined, more space, that steering wheel, far more polished ride. And plaid. The nanny computers and other things driving you mad in the cones have you passing WRXs in the snow in the mountains. Safe, solid car.

I daily drive the GS car above (threw Koni yellows on, perfect on the street at a half back from full soft) and will plainly tell you that the GTI is a far more complete overall car than either of the other two.

PWRandSPD > Justin Hughes
10/19/2016 at 08:34

Being a former GTI and STI owner, the GTI would be one of the very few cars that I have previously owned I would buy again. If price is the setback, go CPO on one that is a year old or something. You can still get a MKVII with bells an whistles for a great price. I was looking at them in 2014, the 2015 model and cross shopping the TDI, GTI, FOST and WRX at the time. I still would have gone GTI, it was just so nice. However, my work vehicle was totaled less than 3 days later. That vehicle came first. don’t worry GTI, I will be back. When I bought my MKV, it was a Autobahn package that at 1 year old with low miles, CPO was about $9k less than new.

EvolutionTen > Justin Hughes
10/19/2016 at 09:06

Actually VW has pretty huge cash incentives on about everything (most likely due to diesel gate). I’ve been selling most of my 17 GTIs for like $3k-$4k off, which is massive for GTIs.

I personally own a 2015 S PP LP 6spd, and as an employee I’m pretty sure I didn’t get that much discount.

Source : VW sales guy, if you can’t already tell.

john herd > Justin Hughes
10/19/2016 at 11:26

Not true in ny they discount 2500 plus 1500 for loyal customers

SantaRita > Justin Hughes
10/19/2016 at 15:41

I’d be surprised to see them discount the only car they have thats selling well.
I got 4k off of my MY 13 ‘Drivers Editon’ in DEC ‘13...they took almost two years off, so no 2014 GTI model, I think?

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Justin Hughes
10/19/2016 at 16:09

I got my GTI SE and made the dealer swap the seats for the plaid cloth.

Come at me bro.

So the whole story here is that I ordered a base GTI because I wanted the cloth seats. I also wanted the PP. VW then decided that they couldn’t be bothered to build the base GTI with the PP anymore. So the dealer I ordered through found me an SE with the PP in the color/door configuration I wanted and offered it to me at the same price as an S, and swapped the seats because I wouldn’t take the car with leather seats. I also had SCCA discount pricing.

Yes, I basically stole that car. I have zero regrets with my choice of vehicle.

Patrick Frawley > Justin Hughes
10/19/2016 at 20:06

I leased a base-model ‘16 Jetta S at the end of July. Even though I was really looking for something else (“something else” in this case translates to “oh, a good Miata or E90 or well-kept GTI Mk6 or something like that”) the offers on Jettas and Passats were too good to be ignored. My manual S with 10K miles a year was $99 a month; hoiked up to 15K a year and something close to full damage coverage, I’m paying $144.

No such deals on Golfs, never mind GTIs.

You get a Golf because you want a Golf, with the implied just-outside-the-mainstream preferences and motivations. VW knows this and they are canny enough to not throw absurdly low lease rates at them; alternately, they sell the ones they have here, unlike a more broad-market-sensitive product like the Jetta which was probably backing up in inventory. (Dieselgate was more than just furious oil-burner owners; the company’s image took a serious hit in broad culture.)

You get a GTI because you really want a GTI for the reasons above but amped up even higher. There is no reason for them to discount on of their beloved cult objects. They sell of their own merit and can be priced accordingly, instead of playing around with market-share numbers.

Sir FR-S (Formally CR-Z) > Justin Hughes
10/19/2016 at 22:30

Have you tried out a F56 MINI Cooper S?

koheinakamura > Justin Hughes
10/21/2016 at 10:39

Get an SCCA membership and you automatically get $500 below invoice as your starting point for negotiations. I got a pretty sizable discount on mine back in February.

cluelessk > Justin Hughes
10/22/2016 at 12:55

True LSD is pretty great. I’ve got a Quaife in my Cobalt and it’s great.

Justin Hughes > koheinakamura
10/24/2016 at 10:39

Hmm. Good to know!